Here are the post numbers for tags currently set to be updates, ordered by count. My thoughts on the most popular ones, as someone who's not a tag gardener or uploader:
I'd be for making catalina_(granblue_fantasy) an alias, as post #2761948 from the GBF Graphic Archive spells it with a C, and typing "cata" wouldn't suggest katalina
Maybe alias skasaha_(granblue_fantasy), as it's one of the more popular out of these, and would again probably not be the easiest to find via autocomplete because of the significantly different spelling
Vira is the most popular, but autocomplete would suggest vira -> vira_lilie
Typing "mete" would suggest metera_(granblue_fantasy), and yggdrasil would suggest yggdrasil_(granblue_fantasy)
Switched Katalina and Scathacha to aliases as suggested.
Most of them don't have much new stuff, so I feel it's probably best to get rid of the old/wrong tags. (Ones with no uploads in last 30 days, I'd guess.)
Feels like it'd probably be okay to drop the old tags for Vira, Metera, and Yggdrasil.
Borderline ones in terms of numbers seems to be Drang and Vetor. Could alias those --- I'm not really sure what constitutes a lot of uploads in 30 days for Danbooru normally, but the GBF numbers for individual characters tends to feel pretty small.
If there's no strong opinion on the other spelling mistakes or wrong translations (Catherine, Eugen, etc), I'll prefer to leave them as is so the errors can disappear, but I guess there isn't a lot of harm in aliasing them if that's for the best. A quick scan of their tag + official_art (to try to find the artbook scans) seems that these are pretty straightforward --- either the correct spelling is there already, or they're not in the artbooks at all. Their upload count seems low enough that new uploaders were probably just using the existing mistaken tags?
After thinking about it, I suppose that Mahira/Makira is a Japanese enough name that the howto:romanize rules would apply, regardless of how it's spelled out in English in the official material. I'm not exactly an authority on romanization.
Laethiel said:
I'd be for making catalina_(granblue_fantasy) an alias, as post #2761948 from the GBF Graphic Archive spells it with a C, and typing "cata" wouldn't suggest
In Graphic Archive III they use K instead of C. I know it was spelt with a C for the longest time.
Games like GBF are like a service so there could be popularity spikes. The popular characters will likely remain popular. The characters will really low post counts could probably be mass edited safely.
Something weird is going on with some of these, maybe all. First, what's working right: searching for any of the aliases returns posts for what it's aliased to, like they should. However: 1. Aliases that are showing in the BUR with a positive number of posts (e.g. doraf) show up in the search suggestions box as their own tag, instead of as aliases. 2. Aliases in the BUR with 0 or a negative number of posts (e.g. pengie) don't show up in the search suggestions box at all.
These tags aren't showing up because daily maintenance jobs haven't been running recently. It's the same root issue as status:pending posts not being deleted.
I feel like this somewhat of a late contribution and I regret not noticing sooner, but what on earth was the logic of using official EN names for some characters but not others? Where is the consistency? Pick one side and go with it.
If the argument is "most commonly used spelling," that is entirely subjective. Most people I know still use "Narumeia", the majority of English players probably don't even realize Nicholas's JP name is Shirou, and in two years of playing the game I have literally never seen anyone type "Thalatha" in reference to the character.
While I personally prefer the original names of the Eternals, from a consistency standpoint there's no real benefit to using the translated original names for them and the English localized names for everyone else. Typing "song" into the search bar and finding "tweyen_(granblue_fantasy)" seems perfectly reasonable, but typing "threo" or "sarasa" and getting "thalatha_(granblue_fantasy)" seems completely arbitrary.
I feel like this somewhat of a late contribution and I regret not noticing sooner, but what on earth was the logic of using official EN names for some characters but not others? Where is the consistency? Pick one side and go with it.
If the argument is "most commonly used spelling," that is entirely subjective. Most people I know still use "Narumeia", the majority of English players probably don't even realize Nicholas's JP name is Shirou, and in two years of playing the game I have literally never seen anyone type "Thalatha" in reference to the character.
While I personally prefer the original names of the Eternals, from a consistency standpoint there's no real benefit to using the translated original names for them and the English localized names for everyone else. Typing "song" into the search bar and finding "tweyen_(granblue_fantasy)" seems perfectly reasonable, but typing "threo" or "sarasa" and getting "thalatha_(granblue_fantasy)" seems completely arbitrary.
The rationale for that was presented by other people in the thread already. Thalatha is correct, since her name is Arabic "Three". "Sarasa" was kept as an alias due to the prevalence of the wrong spelling being used by the community. This was known since 3-4 years ago when the Eternals were released, it's just that JP doesn't have a "th" so the incorrect spelling caught on.
Other ones, like Camieux, were advised to be kept as such because they are close enough to the JP names that people could assume that's what was meant. That's why we have "Albert" and not "Aruberu", for instance.
Danbooru, as mentioned above, also has a general standing rule for JP names preferred, so we use what the JP names are, and only use the EN names if people determine them to be the actual intent of the JP spelling (since of course, converting kana to EN or other languages has some fuzziness).
I checked over the changes, and the JP names are preferred in all the changes, with the only fuzzies being the ones where the intent was determined to be the EN spelling limited by kana, so consistency is (relatively) maintained. Feel free to point out any specific ones you're worried about, and I'll be happy to take a look over them.
The rationale for that was presented by other people in the thread already. Thalatha is correct, since her name is Arabic "Three". "Sarasa" was kept as an alias due to the prevalence of the wrong spelling being used by the community. This was known since 3-4 years ago when the Eternals were released, it's just that JP doesn't have a "th" so the incorrect spelling caught on.
Other ones, like Camieux, were advised to be kept as such because they are close enough to the JP names that people could assume that's what was meant. That's why we have "Albert" and not "Aruberu", for instance.
Danbooru, as mentioned above, also has a general standing rule for JP names preferred, so we use what the JP names are, and only use the EN names if people determine them to be the actual intent of the JP spelling (since of course, converting kana to EN or other languages has some fuzziness).
I am aware of both the origin of her name and the preference for JP names. The issue I'm highlighting is mostly the "determining the intent" bit.
Someone had recommended to use the Graphic Archive. I think that's a fair standard to use, but now that I'm looking it up "Thalatha" wouldn't even be correct either, as volume II spells it "Thalath". (https://youtu.be/SyQ4Eskc7uU?t=85) Regrettably I feel like this makes no one happy, but for the sake of consistency... Maybe it'll be updated in the next volume?
create alias meteon_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> muon_(granblue_fantasy) (6)
create alias black_knight_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> apollonia_vaar (55) create alias zooey_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> the_order_grande (428)
Also, the decision to use Apollonia for Black Knight but The Order Grande over Zooey seems contradictory. The Order Grande is, much like Black Knight, something like a title rather than a name. Zooey was originally present in the game as The Order Grande, but similarly Apollonia was initially introduced as the Black Knight. If Apollo's name should be used over her title, wouldn't it make sense to do the same with Zooey?
I definitely did not peruse every single page of all three Graphic Archive volumes, so I'm not sure if there are any others. These are just what jumped out at me while flipping through the books.
And in post #2765094, the Archives give Vampy's name as ヴァンピィ and Vania. That doesn't mean her Japanese name is Vania, just that (at least some of) the English names in the Archives are the official English names, which can be totally different from their Japanese names.
About Thalatha/Thalath, I don't know anything about Arabic, but quick Googling shows results for both meaning three. Thalatha looks like it fits the kana more, but I'd be fine with either.
As I've said earlier in the thread, I'm fine with the Makira/Mahira alias going either way.
And in post #2765094, the Archives give Vampy's name as ヴァンピィ and Vania. That doesn't mean her Japanese name is Vania, just that (at least some of) the English names in the Archives are the official English names, which can be totally different from their Japanese names.
That's the kind of inconsistency I was pointing out originally. Sure, it's fairly obvious that ヴァンピィ is Vampy, but then why prefer Societte over Socie? I'd say Societte isn't a matter of simple spelling, it's got a whole extra syllable. I do see there was already some discussion over that particular case though, so I won't beat on it.
(It's ironic, however, that although human characters in Pokemon were brought up it wasn't mentioned that the actual Pokemon all use their English localized names.)
I personally would suggest going all the way and just using the names printed in the Archive as the "canonical" versions but I get the feeling that isn't going to gain much traction, so instead I'll suggest correcting the following to make the existing tags as consistent as possible:
create alias the_order_grande (428) -> zooey_(granblue_fantasy) (0), as well as grand_order if necessary create alias makira_(granblue_fantasy) (143) -> mahira_(granblue_fantasy) (0), as it's printed and since "Andira" and "Anila" seem to be preferred mass update thalatha_(granblue_fantasy) -> thalath_(granblue_fantasy), as it's printed
If Vampy and Muon are to be left as exceptions, so be it I suppose. Honestly not sure why it was decided to print Vania and Meteon but Shirou and Vetor.
(It's ironic, however, that although human characters in Pokemon were brought up it wasn't mentioned that the actual Pokemon all use their English localized names.)
Kerasu said: The Order Grande is, much like Black Knight, something like a title rather than a name. Zooey was originally present in the game as The Order Grande, but similarly Apollonia was initially introduced as the Black Knight. If Apollo's name should be used over her title, wouldn't it make sense to do the same with Zooey?
In this particular case, Grande is her actual name. Zooey is what she comes up with during her first fate episode. Apollonia's actual name is obviously Apollonia.
Also, it might seem sorta petty, but I *really* don't think the Graphics Archives should be treated as authoritative, only as a supplement. Otherwise we'll still have weird things like "Teluse". The argument to use the graphics archive listing for Thalath is kinda acceptable, but not for several other characters for that reason.
In this particular case, Grande is her actual name. Zooey is what she comes up with during her first fate episode.
Not really sure what supports this. As far as I can tell she decided to go with Zooey after being unable to explain her true name. Are you suggesting that when she says "ジ…" it's the beginning of "ジ・オーダー・グランデ"?
For Mahira, it is closer to the Sanskrit spelling as opposed to a transliteration of the Japanese, which "Andira" and "Anila" also follow. Sure "Andira" and "Anchira" may have the same kana, but the intent here is pretty clear so... if you'd rather go with "Makira" I don't see why not "Anchira" and "Anira" as well. If you were to choose the Japanese names for the Divine Generals, "Anchira" and "Anira" are both equally valid intent-wise and are more consistent with "Makira".
As for whether Thalath or Thalatha is correct, I honestly don't like either one, but since I believe the next Graphic Archive was announced already we may have to wait and see.
why prefer Societte over Socie? I'd say Societte isn't a matter of simple spelling, it's got a whole extra syllable. I do see there was already some discussion over that particular case though, so I won't beat on it.
I still do think Socie should be the main tag, but since I seemed to be the only one arguing for it, I didn't want to keep holding up the entire BUR.
Kerasu said:
As for whether Thalath or Thalatha is correct, I honestly don't like either one
Why not? Preferring Sarasa over Thalatha/Thalath would be the same as preferring Tsuvai over Zwei. Sure, Zwei happens to be a better known word among English speakers, but both are Japanese renderings of foreign words. And even if the next Graphic Archive says her name is "サラーサ" and "Threo", that would just be similar to the case with Vampy.
Laethiel said: Why not? Preferring Sarasa over Thalatha/Thalath would be the same as preferring Tsuvai over Zwei. Sure, Zwei happens to be a better known word among English speakers, but both are Japanese renderings of foreign words. And even if the next Graphic Archive says her name is "サラーサ" and "Threo", that would just be similar to the case with Vampy.
Sorry, I meant that in the sense that I don't personally like either one, but based on established precedent it makes sense to use one of the two.
Zooey's can be changed if you really feel strongly about it. The thing is that The Order Grande/Grand Order is a (sorta) proper name for her as a primal, and Zooey is definitely not her actual name, though everyone refers to her as it for expediency for the obvious reason (as per her fate episode). I can see the argument both ways, so personally, anything is fine.
Back in some really old GBF EN forum gatherings, we used Thalatha because that's more of the convention for how the "number" is written, to line up with the other Juutenshu. The general suspicion was that "Thalath" is one of Cygame's mistakes in early archives (similar to some of the other names that were changed later on). If we could rope an actual speaker of the language to chip in, that'd help, but I do not speak the language myself, so my knowledge is more or less what people dug up and told us at the time.
I'd say Societte isn't a matter of simple spelling, it's got a whole extra syllable.
They have the same number of syllables? So-shee-eh vs. So-shee-et? But if people want to change it then that's fine, too.
Mahira as well, the issue with that one being that Anira->Anila and Anchira->Andira are already accepted versions of the name in JP, but Makira is not normally a proper kana-ization of Meikira->Mihira. However, if people want Mahira as the standard, I don't particularly mind that. It's just that this discrepancy is what pushed me to argue for that particular point.
Zooey's can be changed if you really feel strongly about it. The thing is that The Order Grande/Grand Order is a (sorta) proper name for her as a primal, and Zooey is definitely not her actual name, though everyone refers to her as it for expediency for the obvious reason (as per her fate episode). I can see the argument both ways, so personally, anything is fine.
Honestly I wish there was bit more to go on here. Looking at various tags for Shingeki no Bahamut stuff, I see a mix of title-included (dark_angel_olivia) and name-only (forte_(shingeki_no_bahamut)). The Order Grande still seems to me like a title, but there isn't compelling evidence either way so I'll let whoever make a call.
Back in some really old GBF EN forum gatherings, we used Thalatha because that's more of the convention for how the "number" is written, to line up with the other Juutenshu. The general suspicion was that "Thalath" is one of Cygame's mistakes in early archives (similar to some of the other names that were changed later on). If we could rope an actual speaker of the language to chip in, that'd help, but I do not speak the language myself, so my knowledge is more or less what people dug up and told us at the time.
I can sort of get behind this. Since there was summer artwork of her, I would expect an update in the next volume.
They have the same number of syllables? So-shee-eh vs. So-shee-et? But if people want to change it then that's fine, too.
"Societte" would be more like ソシエット as opposed to ソシエ.
Mahira as well, the issue with that one being that Anira->Anila and Anchira->Andira are already accepted versions of the name in JP, but Makira is not normally a proper kana-ization of Meikira->Mihira. However, if people want Mahira as the standard, I don't particularly mind that. It's just that this discrepancy is what pushed me to argue for that particular point.
If it helps, you can think of the "hi" to "ki" transformation as a double translation from Sanskrit to Chinese and then to Japanese.
Bottom line is, three out of four (so far) Divine Generals already have tags matching their Sanskrit spellings, so I think Mahira is close enough that it wouldn't spell the end of Danbooru if she did as well, and in fact would seem more correct next to the rest of her cycle. Characters like Vampy, Muon, or Socie don't have a pattern to follow, so it matters less.
There isn't much more for me to elaborate on and I've already belabored the point, so having presented my case thoroughly I'll simply let someone make a call.
