[BUR] Granblue Fantasy character and race names

Laethiel said:

I'm not hugely familiar with GBF, but I wanted to give my support to Drunk -> Drang. As mentioned in forum #114974, doranku instead of dorangu is an accepted alternate way of writing Drang in Japanese.

I'm not sure why we're referencing GBF and not the official site...
http://granbluefantasy.jp/en/theater/detail.php?contents=character&id=09 spells it as Drang.
Also given his sidekick Sturm it's an obvious reference to the German literary movement Sturm und Drang.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_und_Drang

we can :
- keep what has been used so far, but when ppl search for the other name known from wiki and official sources in gbf graphic archives, it will redirect to the old one

because the main point here is ppl can search with a name they know from wiki, not from language pronounciation which not all ppl know of. its win win, ppl can get result from the name they know, theres no need any major change on the old one

now, the question is how to do the redirection tag search

or :
- change the old one and redirect what ppl search on the old one to new name

i can help if the grunt work is too much to do. for you to know, in graphic archive recently released theres official written name in normal words so far i know metera isnt metella in it

Here's a current dump of the pending BUR for anyone who isn't a builder but wants to make suggestions:

Just quote it and note your changes along with a helpful explanation, preferably with an asterisk, hashtag, or something.

This has been languishing for a long time now. Unless someone has any specific issues with it as it stands and speaks up soon, I'm in favor of approving it. Obviously correct aliases like Harvin and Drang are stuck in limbo as long as this sits around. If we notice any problems afterward, they can be fixed then.

If anyone still needs information or proof of official spellings or stuff, I'm still game to dig them up wherever possible. I've been checking back every day or two but since there isn't anything going on in the thread, I wasn't sure if anything in particular should have been done on my part.

Hmm, alright. Just as a side note though, if it would help, would both of you @Laethiel @kozaki​.saya perhaps be ready to rewrite and check the granblue fantasy wikipage for completeness? Meaning, if we're going by all NA names for consistency, then just be prepared to make note to those differences.

Perhaps it is about time we do get an admin in here to consider the changes, but given how large it is, everything does need careful scrutiny. Undoing a mistake in it would be a real headache.

I wouldn't mind giving the wiki a once-over to change the names and stuff.

I think the bigger issue is to make sure all the character tags are on it. I don't know if there's a good way to do that. (I think there's some more obscure or newer tags missing).

I finally got tired enough of happening across this stuff off and on to go through everything in the list one-by-one. My info's based on gbf.wiki rather than in-game, since I don't play. I think any of the mass updates should be aliases, since a lot of these tags are quite established.

Correct - unless someone has specific arguments, I see no reason not to approve these.
create alias erun_(granblue_fantasy) (3039) -> erune (0)
create alias harbin (677) -> harvin (0)
create alias doraf (3667) -> draph (0)
mass update catalina_(granblue_fantasy) -> katalina_aryze
mass update eugene_(granblue_fantasy) -> eugen_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update vira -> vira_lilie
create alias saaya_(granblue_fantasy) (48) -> sarya_(granblue_fantasy) (0)
mass update elegy_(granblue_fantasy) -> ejaeli_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias sarasa_(granblue_fantasy) (171) -> thalatha_(granblue_fantasy) (0)
mass update yggdrasill_(granblue_fantasy) -> yggdrasil_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update metella_(granblue_fantasy) -> metera_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias narumeia_(granblue_fantasy) (1206) -> narmaya_(granblue_fantasy) (0)
mass update xiao_(granblue_fantasy) -> shao_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias anchira_(granblue_fantasy) (324) -> andira_(granblue_fantasy) (0)
mass update betor_(granblue_fantasy) -> vetor_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update karuba_(granblue_fantasy) -> karva_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update tania_(granblue_fantasy) -> tanya_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update drunk_(granblue_fantasy) -> drang_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update catharine_(granblue_fantasy) -> catherine_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias kukuru_(granblue_fantasy) (98) -> cucouroux_(granblue_fantasy) (0)
mass update pengie -> pengy_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update grafos -> graphos
mass update skasaha_(granblue_fantasy) -> scathacha_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update karuteira -> karteira
mass update souffleramahr -> suframare

Correct, but is it necessary? - Aside from Black Knight, these are pretty much all a case of "are EN -> JP aliases worth it?", and should really just need discussion of the group as a whole rather than individual cases.
create alias black_knight_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> apollonia_vaar (54)
create alias nicholas_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> shirou_(granblue_fantasy) (16)
create alias luminiera_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> chevalier_(granblue_fantasy) (10)
create alias zooey_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> the_order_grande (413)
create alias anre_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> uno_(granblue_fantasy) (8)
create alias tweyen_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> song_(granblue_fantasy) (130)
create alias threo_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> thalatha_(granblue_fantasy) (0)
create alias feower_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> quatre_(granblue_fantasy) (26)
create alias fif_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> funf (15)
create alias seox_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> six_(granblue_fantasy) (25)
create alias seofon_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> siete (54)
create alias eahta_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> okto (14)
create alias niyon_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> nio_(granblue_fantasy) (62)
create alias tien_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> esser (52)
create alias phoebe_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> vetor_(granblue_fantasy) (0)
create alias mystic_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> wiseman_(granblue_fantasy) (10)
create alias meteon_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> muon_(granblue_fantasy) (5)

Not sure whether to consider the EN name a romanization or a different name
create alias kumuyu (177) -> camieux (0)
mass update socie_(granblue_fantasy) -> societte_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update rumredda -> lamretta
mass update lilulu -> riruru_(granblue_fantasy) - Leaving this in this group as it goes with the one below.
create alias lilele_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> riruru_(granblue_fantasy) (0)

Other
create alias the_grand_order_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> the_order_grande (413) - seems to just be Grand Order (no The) in EN. Other than that, fits under the "correct, but is it necessary?" category
create alias vania_(granblue_fantasy) (0) -> vampy (432) - Originally from Shingeki no Bahamut. If we need the alias at all, it should probably either just be "vania" or "vania_(shingeki_no_bahamut)".
create alias makira_(granblue_fantasy) (134) -> mahira_(granblue_fantasy) (0) - Apparently based on Mihira, who's also known as Mekira in Japanese. However, Makira seems to be an original name inspired by Mihira/Mekira. I'd lean towards the JP and EN names being different enough to alias mahira -> makira, which would go under the "correct, but is it necessary?" category.
create alias lyria_(granblue_fantasy) (308) -> ruria_(granblue_fantasy) (0) - Doesn't seem necessary. I can buy Lyria as just a romanization.
mass update brigette_(granblue_fantasy) -> bridgette_(granblue_fantasy) - No need, already tagged with bridgette.

EN->JP for the Eternals (Juutenshu) characters (Uno, Song, Thalatha, etc), as a player heavily invested in the game, I highly recommend having, since the JP names are very well known in the community, and they're vastly different from the EN localization's archaic English version (Anre, Threo, etc). For the others (Nicholas, Phoebe, etc) I like having them for completeness, but I understand if people don't want those.

The ones under "Not sure whether to consider" I'm not quite sure what you're asking --- names like Societte, Camieux, and such are the correct ones. Do you mean those should be aliases or something? Note that some of them, like Rumredda->Lamretta, "Rumredda" is just wrong as a romanization (the romaji is "ramuredda", screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/Bv94xlf.png ), and there's no particular attachment community-wise to the wrong name, so it should just be gotten rid of and the official name (Lamretta) used.

Quite honestly, life would be easier if Cygames didn't just randomly change names in the EN version. Especially the weird ones like Riruru (JP) to Lilele (EN).

At any rate, as usual, I'm willing to go dig up or provide citations/screenshots/opinions if you'd like. Thanks for looking over this!

The "Not sure whether to consider" group are ones that, at a glance, I wasn't sure whether to consider them as

• 1. unusual ways of writing the same name, in a similar manner to Djeeta (which would mean we want the EN names as the actual tag)
• 2. changed names, in a similar manner to the Eternals

Looking at them again, I feel like they're all sufficiently different from the JP names that the JP names should be the actual tags, with the EN names as aliases; with the possible exception of lilele. For clarity, I'll go through my thoughts on each:

• kumuyu/camieux: I'd buy camieux as a way of rendering "kamuyu", but not for "kumuyu".
• socie/societte: My initial thought was a possible silent "tte", but from a little poking around, I don't see that actually occurring in any language.
• rumredda/lamretta: Rumredda seems reasonable to me for ramuredda, with "rum" perhaps being an intentional pun on her drinking. If the JP were ramuretta instead of ramuredda, I'd buy lamretta as being the same name, but it looks to me like they changed it.
• lilulu/riruru/lilele: I could actually go either way on this one. Since the French "le" is rendered into Japanese as "ru", riruru being rendered as lilele seems okay to me. But I'd be fine with the alias going either way.

So my recommendations would be:
create alias camieux -> kumuyu
create alias societte_(granblue_fantasy) -> socie_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias lamretta -> rumredda
create alias lilulu -> lilele_(granblue_fantasy)

I don't think having Danbooru specific translations for Societte, Camieux, and Lamretta would be beneficial to anyone. Even if the English localization has some unusual translations, we can fall back on official JP spellings. To quote howto:romanize

For non-Japanese or outright made-up proper names, use their official spellings where possible.

We have numerous posts from the Granblue Fantasy Character Archive such as post #2763855 that should be guiding the name choices.

For that reason I would advocate for:

create alias kumuyu -> camieux
create alias socie_(granblue_fantasy) -> societte_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias rumredda -> lamretta
create alias rumretta -> lamretta

I don't think having Danbooru specific translations for Societte, Camieux, and Lamretta would be beneficial to anyone.

I think that's basically what it comes down to --- "Rumredda", for instance, is not used by the community of players (unlike the original names of the Eternals), so it's unlikely that anyone will search for that, and there's probably very minimal value, if any, in keeping it. Not to mention that any players that started playing after the EN translation was released will just use "Lamretta".

"Kumuyu" used to be used a bit by the community, but it's fallen out of favor a lot, so it could go either way on whether to keep it. It's a bit more questionable.

(Minor side note, Zooey/Grande Order isn't an EN/JP change (as listed a few posts up), Zooey is the character's name, and the summon/boss version of her is called The Order Grande (JP) or Grand Order (EN). The character is called Zooey in JP as well.)

I'm not overly concerned with which way the aliases go on the edge cases like kumuyu/camieux, socie/societte, and rumredda/lamretta; as long as there's an alias, people can find them under the old tag or the official English spelling. I'd just like to get this whole BUR through. Regarding keeping the old tags as an alias, a couple of quotes from Type-kun from earlier in the thread:

Generally speaking, if the tag exists for a certain time and has over a certain amount of posts, it's usually aliased to prevent confusion for users who bookmarked searches containing it.

I generally make the cutoff at 15-20 posts if there's a chance for more posts appearing under the tag

I also have no problem personally with the EN -> JP aliases for, e.g., the Eternals.

To sum up my position:

• I think the updates should be aliases
• I'm fine with the aliases for kumuyu/rumredda/socie/lilulu going either way. Same with makira/mahira. I don't think we need to create the riruru_(granblue_fantasy) tag.
• I don't think the lyria and bridgette aliases/updates are necessary
• I think we should alias either vania -> vampy or vania_(shingeki_no_bahamut) -> vampy
• Aside from specific exceptions I just mentioned, I support the whole BUR

In that case, do you think it might be better to just standardize to the EN names, and have the JP names alias to that? I'm thinking there will be less exceptions, and it'll clean up the more borderline ones more neatly.

It came up a bit earlier in the thread as well, but I think with a few of these suggested changes it might make more sense to stick to one side for consistency (whether I should set the alias to Zooey -> The Order Grande or Zooey -> Grand Order, for instance, even if we decide not to have Grand Order -> The Order Grande) or whether to use certain names (Razia vs. Rastina for example. We currently have Razia, which is the EN name, but if we're standardizing to JP for the base tags then it should be Rastina...) by default, even if there are no aliases. If we standardize to EN names then I'll flip the Eternals around also.

Switching to aliases mostly is fine, though I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following few, which are either misspellings or (I think) too minor, and are not JP/EN translation differences:

• Xiao -> Shao
• Yggdrasill -> Yggdrasil
• Elegy -> Ejaeli
• Metella -> Metera
• Betor -> Vetor
• Catharine -> Catherine
• Pengie -> Pengy
• Grafos -> Graphos
• Skasaha -> scathacha
• Karuteira -> Karteira
• Souffleramahr -> Suframare

No, per howto:character, we should stick with the JP names as primary. A similar case exists with the human characters in Pokemon: I'm sure they're mostly known by English speakers under their English names, but we still follow danbooru's naming policy and tag them with their Japanese names. In fact, Pokemon is probably a great similar case, as it follows howto:character like I'm suggesting.

Character tags should be the same name and name order that are used in the original source material. For example, Kiyama Hiroto, not "Hiroto Kiyama" or "Xavier Foster". If an alternate name, such as a nickname or a name from the English version, is widely used, you may "request an alias"/tag_alias_request/new from that to the original language title.

While as I said above, I personally think the kumuyu/rumredda/socie trio are sufficiently changed to consider them different names, I'm fine if the consensus is that they are the same names and should have camieux/lamretta/societte as the actual tags; I don't think 3 edge-case character tags are worth arguing over and continuing to stall the whole BUR.

I wasn't aware of Razia/Rastina; since it's a clear name change, it should be an alias.

Also, while looking through the GBF Character Archive stuff that reese mentioned, I found post #2776176. As both that and gbf.wiki agree that her name should be Lunalu, that should be aliased as well.

So in addition to what I said above, I also propose:
alias razia -> rastina
alias lunaru_(granblue_fantasy) -> lunalu (or lunalu_(granblue_fantasy) if lunalu isn't considered unique enough)

Added Lunalu and Razia to the BUR.

Here's what it has so far (for easier reading):

update grafos -> graphos
update skasaha_(granblue_fantasy) -> scathacha_(granblue_fantasy)
update karuteira -> karteira
update souffleramahr -> suframare
update elegy_(granblue_fantasy) -> ejaeli_(granblue_fantasy)
update pengie -> pengy_(granblue_fantasy)
update drunk_(granblue_fantasy) -> drang_(granblue_fantasy)
update catharine_(granblue_fantasy) -> catherine_(granblue_fantasy)
update betor_(granblue_fantasy) -> vetor_(granblue_fantasy)
update xiao_(granblue_fantasy) -> shao_(granblue_fantasy)
update yggdrasill_(granblue_fantasy) -> yggdrasil_(granblue_fantasy)
update metella_(granblue_fantasy) -> metera_(granblue_fantasy)
update eugene_(granblue_fantasy) -> eugen_(granblue_fantasy)
update tania_(granblue_fantasy) -> tanya_(granblue_fantasy)
update catalina_(granblue_fantasy) -> katalina_aryze

alias erun_(granblue_fantasy) -> erune
alias harbin -> harvin
alias doraf -> draph

alias black_knight_(granblue_fantasy) -> apollonia_vaar
update vira -> vira_lilie
alias zooey_(granblue_fantasy) -> the_order_grande
alias phoebe_(granblue_fantasy) -> vetor_(granblue_fantasy)
alias narumeia_(granblue_fantasy) -> narmaya_(granblue_fantasy)
alias vania -> vampy
alias razia -> rastina
alias lunaru_(granblue_fantasy) -> lunalu_(granblue_fantasy)
alias lilulu -> lilele_(granblue_fantasy)
alias andira_(granblue_fantasy) -> anchira_(granblue_fantasy)
alias mahira_(granblue_fantasy) -> makira_(granblue_fantasy)
alias mystic_(granblue_fantasy) -> wiseman_(granblue_fantasy)
alias nicholas_(granblue_fantasy) -> shirou_(granblue_fantasy)
alias luminiera_(granblue_fantasy) -> chevalier_(granblue_fantasy)
alias meteon_(granblue_fantasy) -> muon_(granblue_fantasy)

alias sarasa_(granblue_fantasy) -> thalatha_(granblue_fantasy)
alias anre_(granblue_fantasy) -> uno_(granblue_fantasy)
alias tweyen_(granblue_fantasy) -> song_(granblue_fantasy)
alias threo_(granblue_fantasy) -> thalatha_(granblue_fantasy)
alias feower_(granblue_fantasy) -> quatre_(granblue_fantasy)
alias fif_(granblue_fantasy) -> funf
alias seox_(granblue_fantasy) -> six_(granblue_fantasy)
alias seofon_(granblue_fantasy) -> siete
alias eahta_(granblue_fantasy) -> okto
alias niyon_(granblue_fantasy) -> nio_(granblue_fantasy)
alias tien_(granblue_fantasy) -> esser

alias saaya_(granblue_fantasy) -> sarya_(granblue_fantasy)
alias socie_(granblue_fantasy) -> societte_(granblue_fantasy)
alias kumuyu -> camieux
alias kukuru_(granblue_fantasy) -> cucouroux_(granblue_fantasy)
alias rumredda -> lamretta
alias karuba_(granblue_fantasy) -> karva_(granblue_fantasy)

I moved the "typo/minor correction" updates to the top. If those really should be aliases, I can change them now, though I feel there's little value in keeping names that are probably mistakes. The questionable ones are at the bottom-most block, whether they're kept or not is kinda whatever.

Removed Ruria and Riruru as mentioned before.

How does it look so far?

Laethiel said:

alias razia -> rastina

Razia/Rastina didn't get a character profile in the latest Character Character archive so I can't verify the name.

update pengie -> pengy_(granblue_fantasy)

I would be in favour of an alias. She does have over 100 posts and her initial spelling was Pengie (Character Volume 2) and now it's Pengy (Character Volume 3) which matches up with the EN version (for what that's worth).

alias lilulu -> lilele_(granblue_fantasy)

I'm going to throw one more name into the mix. Character Archive Volume 2 uses Rilulu. Keep in mind Volume 2 was published in 2016 so the name may have changed since then. No preference.

alias andira_(granblue_fantasy) -> anchira_(granblue_fantasy)
alias mahira_(granblue_fantasy) -> makira_(granblue_fantasy)

Character volume 3 uses Andira and Mahira. I'm in favour of reversing the alias.

I'm not deeply involved in tagging or back-end stuff like aliases, but as mentioned in the quote from Type-kun above, the idea is that these established tags could be in saved searches, bookmarks, etc. So if someone has a saved search including catalina_(granblue_fantasy) or vira and we just update instead of alias, that saved search will no longer find posts with those tags. Also, if we update instead of alias, people used to the old tags can keep tagging new posts with them, and tag gardeners would have to clean them up until everyone got used to the new ones.

Tagging @Type-kun for a more expert opinion.

EDIT: I agree with reese on aliasing anchira_(granblue_fantasy) -> andira_(granblue_fantasy) rather than vice-versa, based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Heavenly_Generals

As I said above, I'm fine with the Mahira/Makira alias going either direction, as it's based on one of the Twelve Heavenly Generals' names, but isn't directly one of the names like Andira.

reese said:

Razia/Rastina didn't get a character profile in the latest Character Character archive so I can't verify the name.

I would be in favour of an alias. She does have over 100 posts and her initial spelling was Pengie (Character Volume 2) and now it's Pengy (Character Volume 3) which matches up with the EN version (for what that's worth).

I'm going to throw one more name into the mix. Character Archive Volume 2 uses Rilulu. Keep in mind Volume 2 was published in 2016 so the name may have changed since then. No preference.

Character volume 3 uses Andira and Mahira. I'm in favour of reversing the alias.

I think the problem with the character volumes is that they use the EN names for the big titles (with the JP names as a subtitle), while the game (which, IMO, should be the most authoritative source) splits the JP and EN names. It's also probably best to treat the game as authoritative, otherwise Therese will still be called "Teluse"...

For instance, if I switch my game to JP, I get Makira: https://i.imgur.com/Obg27Mq.png

If I swap it to EN, I have Mahira: https://i.imgur.com/ISLFdY2.png

Thus, if we're doing JP names with EN aliases, it should probably be Mahira -> Makira.

Note that the character volume page (post #2776184) has "Makira" in Japanese on it, overlaid over the "Mahira" english text.

EDIT: Switched Pengy to an alias, because Cygames is weird. Also switch Andira, but hrm.

Laethiel said:

I'm not deeply involved in tagging or back-end stuff like aliases, but as mentioned in the quote from Type-kun above, the idea is that these established tags could be in saved searches, bookmarks, etc. So if someone has a saved search including catalina_(granblue_fantasy) or vira and we just update instead of alias, that saved search will no longer find posts with those tags. Also, if we update instead of alias, people used to the old tags can keep tagging new posts with them, and tag gardeners would have to clean them up until everyone got used to the new ones.

Tagging @Type-kun for a more expert opinion.

EDIT: I agree with reese on aliasing anchira_(granblue_fantasy) -> andira_(granblue_fantasy) rather than vice-versa, based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Heavenly_Generals

As I said above, I'm fine with the Mahira/Makira alias going either direction, as it's based on one of the Twelve Heavenly Generals' names, but isn't directly one of the names like Andira.

I guess that kinda makes sense. Is there a penalty for having a lot of deprecated aliases, a few of which are danbooru-specific, and some are actually wrong, even compared to JP (Ejaeli, for instance. There's no way the JP spelling turns into "Elegy": https://i.imgur.com/iSCvwNk.png )? If not, leaving them in is no problem, but it just feels so... cluttery. If it does have a cost though, maybe it's better to tell them that their tag is outdated/wrong, somehow, if that's possible?

Laethiel said:

Tagging @Type-kun for a more expert opinion.

Mass-updating through bulk update requests will actually fix saved searches now, so it's fine as long as it's not done manually. As for the alias/update problem, I generally look at whether the current tag is actively used (has a lot of posts and will be mistagged out of habit), and whether it's distinct enough for it not to clash with other copyrights (common unqualified chartags with names, like sara for example, should be mass-updated to become ambiguous instead).